16 Comments

  1. Agreed. Not necessary, but Pres. O did his thing.

  2. “The big ‘debate’ between 2 pro-Israel candidates. Were it ANY OTHER country that was the subject of the debate besides Israel, the American people would be up in arms, wondering why these 2 contenders for office of the President were so worried about the well being of another country besides their own.”

  3. I agree. I found that very odd and patronizing.

  4. “Pray for the Peace of JerUSAlem. May they prosper who love you”
    Psalms 122:6
    -
    Worldwide and within vast segments of the Church anti-semitism is on the rise, the church has largely forgotten
    “Do not boast against the branches (Israel) but if you do boast, remember that you (gentiles) do not support the root (Israel), but the root supports you” Rom 11:18
    In Pauls analogy of the ‘natural’ branch and ‘wild olive tree’ we were grafted onto the natural branch Rom 11:24
    -
    The God of all the earth told Abraham “I will bless those that bless you and curse him that curses you; And thru you all the families of the earth will be blessed” Gen 12:3
    And what is this blessing?
    “And the scripture forseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, ‘preached the gospel’ to Abraham beforehand saying “In you all the nations shall be blessed! So then then those who are of faith are the sons of Abraham” Gal 3:8-9
    -
    The historical revisonists portray Israel as occupiers of the land that was promised by Divine right, “To your decendents I will give this land..” Gen 12:8/15:18
    God has always loved and cared for gentile people, WE were always included in His plan of salvation; For is he not the God of the Jew as well the Gentile? since he is the creator of all men!
    “But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” Acts 10:35
    -
    This blessing came in many ways,
    “For (knowledge of) salvation is of the Jews”
    Jesus (Jn 4:22)
    “because unto Israel was entrusted the ‘oracles of God’” Rom 3:2
    but most importantly thru Israel of the tribe of Judah came JESUS our MESSIAH!
    God constantly reminded Israel not to think they’re superior to anyone else Deuteronomy 9:4-6
    -
    The charter of the enemies of Israel is “To destroy the Zionists, and wipe Israel off the map!”
    “They have said Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation,
    that the name of ISRAEL be remembered no more!” Psalms 83:4
    -
    But the True & Living God has sworn-
    “Who gives the sun for a light by day and ordinances
    of the moon & stars for light by night…
    if these ordinances depart from before Me,
    says the Lord
    then the seed of Israel shall also cease
    from being a nation before Me forever!”
    Jer 31:35-36
    For Jesus said “The Father is greater than all and no man can pluck you out of the His hand!”
    -
    God is not impressed by any nations “Superpower status”
    Behold, the nations are as a drop in a bucket
    and counted as dust on the scales…All nations before him are as nothing, And they are counted by Him less than nothing and worthless” Isa 40:15;17
    “Until you know that the Most High God rules in the kingdoms of men and gives it to whomever He chooses!” Dan 4:32
    If we want our nation to be blessed we must be a blessing to Israel
    Lets not forget the same enemies of Israel have us in their crosshairs also

  5. Gigifromthehills

    …it “might” have something to do with all these folks hosting Christian programs such as Daystar, TBN, God Channel, The Church Channel Programs, Sid Roth, and the infamous racist, 700 Club-Pat Roberson brain washing their sheeple with voting fear tactics. They’ve been telling people that God, (yes, GOD)through prophets, that it is better to vote for Romney than for President Obama because although President Obama “says” he is a Christian, he isn’t a “true” christian because he supports same-sex marriages and abortions while Romney is “technically” a true christian because he supports Israel—-and God, through his prophets, have told America to not turn their backs nor divide Israel unless a curse will follow.

    YES! I heard this several times last week on each of these stations. On the Daystar Broadcast, Joanie and her weird looking husband had the gall to have a husband/wife couple who “walk in the office of prophets and the prophectics” actually say that the LORD, our God, told them to tell the people that is wouldn’t be wise to stay home and not vote, or to write in a candidate because that would be a wasted vote—-that it would be pleasing to God to vote for the one who believed in protecting Israel.

    Besides the uncommitted voters, and married women voters, the group that seems to have everyone wondering which way they will vote is the “Christian voter who is having problems with the Mormons being true christians.” So, they’ve been dropping fear-bombs with Israel.

    I will do an inch-high private eye cybersearch for some of the Israel-fearing stuff I’ve heard thus far and will try to post it to see if it’s just me.

  6. Gigifromthehills

    Amen and good points BAJerry! Some of the scriptures you listed are the same scriptures I’ve heard them use on these broadcast stations—but with a twist. The twist to the scriptures kept referring back to Romney being the one who would keep alignment with Israel and that President Obama had a hidden agenda against Israel.

    I kept listening to each of these program hosts and it wasn’t the WORD of God that was offensive; but rather how these men and women were twisting the WORD to promote sound reason and biblical doctrine for casting a vote for Romney.

    It is sad to hear people say that GOD told them to tell the American nation to vote for Romney because HE was putting Romney in place to rebuild and restore America back to the great nation it was. It’s sad to hear people pimp God’s WORD for selfish and/or political gain when we know that God can and will do whatever HE wants to regardless of whom is in office. Our God isn’t limited to a political party when it comes to HIS children.

    Seriously, God wants us to always trust HIM and depend upon HIM and not in chariots, horses, man or bayonnets….no matter who is in leadership because HE will always be the Ultimate and Greatest Commander In Chief just as He is King of all Kings and Lord of all Lords.

    I wish folks in Christian leadership would just tell people to vote whatever their minds see fit and leave “prophetic” voices out of it. They make God appear to be bi-political-polar!!!

    ***The couple on the Marcus and Joni Lamb show were: Hank & Brenda Kunneman-Lord of Host Church, Omaha, Neb. I don’t know much about this couple others than looking at their website today and looking at some Youtube videos. They come across as “okay, some of what you’re saying makes uncommon/faith sense, some sounds like Paula White—crazy!” In reading their prophetic messages from their website, many of them are too vague when it comes to “presidental and/or economic messages” and could apply to either President Obama, or Romney if chosen for this term. For that, their website gets a thumbs down from me. Maybe they are anoited of God—I’m not feeling them at.all!

    I detest prophetic messages that are vague and lack specifics because it makes prophetic ministry out to be voodoo/whodoo weird (not that I know anything about voodoo)….I’m just saying, I hate unclear “deep” messages by folks who say they hear from God yet can’t speak in clear sentences of understanding. And this is what’s been passing through the television/radio airwaves from Christian networks.

  7. The Bible says pray for peace of Jerusalem. Love the Jews etc. However there is no where it says an independent nation should move lock step and agree with every Israeli policy,(an option even their own citizens have to disagree)at the price of being labeled antisemitic. It is also ironic how teh pro Israel lobby is vibrant and unapologetic and are able to brand themselves as perpetual victims because of history, yet people of color, we are ashamed to wear the same designations, and think we have “overcome.”

  8. Gigifromthehills

    I promise this will be my last comment for the week.

    -

    @winston: Thank you for speaking on it! I do pray for the peace of Jerusalem as the WORD commands me to do for I love the Lord with all my heart; however, I do have to frown at some of the the practice of racism that Jewish people burden my people (Ethiopians who are Jewish) with on a daily.

    -

    Several in my family who identified themselves as “Falashas” were air lifted to Israel via Operation Moses. Because my parents had accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and were Christians, they refused to take part in the departure—even though it meant we would be separated from family for a long time.

    -

    WOW!!! is the word and punctuation mark to use when I hear of the mistreatment and racism they experience for being African/Dark-skinned Jews. Yes, Jewish people hate when Ethiopians complain about their mistreatment, and you’re right, the Pro-Israel lobby will cry “victim” yet doesn’t want anyone else to cry “hypocrite”. It pains me that people are afraid to say that Jewish people are humans full of fault and sin just like anyone….and that they need JESUS!

    -

    It bothers me that when one speaks out, you are attacked with “fear” that if you speak truth about Israel, somehow GOD is going to strike you down dead—-??? I often laugh and say, “If God hasn’t struck the folks in Israel dead for rejecting HIS only begotten son as Messiah, will He really strike me down dead for speaking out against a Jewish person’s wrong doings?

    Anyway, I vent all that just to say, “Thank You!”

  9. WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS
    http://charlesecarlson.com/who-is-charles-e-carlson/

    A great PEACEFUL CHRISTIAN Ministry to support concerning this issue. A ministry that tries to bring light and peace on the subject of the presidential debate.

    http://charlesecarlson.com/who-is-charles-e-carlson/

  10. @Gigi- I agree with your assessement about the “christian” channels you mentioned, over 80% of the speakers on these channels promote some of the biggest false teachings and outright heresy I’ve ever heard, the majority are opportunists using these platforms to promote and enrich themselves; I see thru the scare tactics and underlying racism in trying influence voters “in the name of God”
    You are very wise to investigate the facts for yourself because the scriptures say “Test all things” 1 Thess 5:21
    -
    Yes, there are some racist jews Winston, I’ve experienced it myself from some, I’ve always wondered why after surviving the Holocaust there isn’t more tolerance towards others
    Jewish people are no better nor worst than any other ethnic group,
    I’ve stated that in my comments quoting Deut 9:4-6 (from the mouth of God Himself)
    -
    Gods concern with Israel is for the “spiritual entity” because
    “They are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all childern because they are the (physical) decendents of Abraham
    but ‘In Isaac your seed shall be called’
    That is, those who are the childern of the flesh, these are not the childern of God; but the childern of the promise are counted as the seed” Rom 9:6-8 (Thats believing Jew & Gentile)
    -
    “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY and circumcision that is of the heart, in the Spirit..”
    Rom 2:28-29
    -
    Here is the Truth about Israel- Delivered from Egyptian slavery by God, given the “Ten Commandments”, shortly thereafter committed gross Idolatry where God threatened to wipe them off the face of the earth if not for Moses’ intercession, given the promised land and practiced the same abominations of the surrounding nations which God forbad them to do, (and in some cases did worse) an on and off again relationship with God during the Judges, given a kingdom that divided within a generation, taken into captivity and removed out of their land, then rejected their MESSIAH!
    Yes, God did chasten national Israel over the centuries for He is just, and no respector of persons
    So by saying “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem” is not an wholesale endorsement of “lock step and agreement with every Israeli policy” it is the hope and desire for the return of and recognition by Israel of her True King and MESSIAH!

  11. BornAgainJerry: Below are some thorough OBJECTIVE bible teachings on the topic of Israel I have heard so far.

    Acts 17:11(NIV) -Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

    Proverbs 18:17(ESV)-The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

    http://www.drkellynelsonbirks.com/media-romans.php

    1/10/10
    All The Elect Are Israel…Not All Israel Are Elect

    1/17/10
    All The Elect Are Israel…Not All Israel Are Elect, Part 2

    1/31/10
    How To Respond To Absolute Election

    2/14/10
    How To Respond To Absolute Election, Part 2

    2/21/10
    The Vessels Of Mercy…Remnant Vessels & Gentile Vessels

    7/04/10
    The Remnant Of Ethnic Israel

    08/01/10
    The Remnant Of Ethnic Israel, Part 2

    08/08/10
    The Remnant Of Ethnic Israel, Part 3

    08/22/10
    The Remnant Of Ethnic Israel, Part 4

    http://www.charlescoty.com/Audio2.html

    On the right side of the above link

    The Olive Tree – Curtis

    http://www.charlescoty.com/user/Romans%2011.16-24%20-%20(The%20Olive%20Tree)%20-%20David%20Curtis%20604.mp3

  12. cladius: I appreciate the time and effort you took to ‘enlighten’ me from Dr. Kellys perspective concerning Israel, I make the assumption that your motives are sincere and not just for the sake of argument; of which I have no intention of doing (and I did listen to the audio)
    I, like the Bereans “Do search the scriptures daily to see if these things are so” Trust me.
    -
    However, Dr Kelly comes from a ‘Preterist’ approach to scripture, which in essence “locks the historical events in the 1st century” before the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. while not allowing any “Futurist” interpetation
    Because Kelly emphatically stated “Who are the elect/remnant Paul was refering to? – limited to only 1st century Jews!” during his expositon of Romans
    -
    “The Israel thats over there today is just a group of European people from all over the world – They just entered into (adapted) Talmudism” -Kelly
    I understand that to mean that they are not ethnic Jews living there today but imposters; Thats called “Replacement Theology”
    I’ve heard these same arguments from Black Hebrew Israelites, Mormons & some from within N.O.I (Nation of Islam) and the now defunct “Yahweh ben Yahweh” cult
    -
    He said “Theres only ‘one’ Israel, the Israel of God” (citing Gal 6:16) thats why he stated “theres no literal ethnic Israel today”
    Kelly blurs the distinction between national Israel & the Church(which includes both BELIEVING Jew & Gentile)
    Paul himself made this distinction “Give no offense to the JEWS or to the GREEKS or to the CHURCH of GOD” his reason was “..not seeking my own benefit, but the benefit of many, that THEY MAY BE SAVED” 1 Cor 10:32-33
    -
    Kellys language is from the “Amillenial” school of thought
    because he says “a literal/actual interpetation is wrong”
    I find that Amillienalists usually spiritualize or allergorize passages to fit their particular view; thats his right to hold that interpetation, its just not mine. Thats a whole nother issue
    Plus it would mean Ezekiel is a false prophet because his prophesy of a “Mega” Temple (Ezekiel 40-48) has never come to pass
    in the history of Israel
    -
    I say this in utmost humility, I have studied & compared the
    Preterist, Historicist, Idealist, Futurist plus Pre, Post & Non views
    -
    Again, I appreciate the “thorough OBJECTIVE bible teachings on the topic of Israel you’ve heard so far” from Dr Kelly, but I must be like Paul before Tertullus & governor Felix “I gladly offer my defense for Myself” Acts 24:10
    -
    I must state again what God said concerning (ethnic) ISRAEL:
    “Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun
    for a light by day and the ordinances of
    the moon and stars for a light by night…
    If these ordainances depart from before Me
    says the LORD, then the seed of Israel shall
    also cease from being a (perpetual) nation before me forever”
    Jeremiah 31:35-36
    cladius, if you disagree, thats your right to do so, lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. Peace, brother

  13. Thank You, brother BornAgainJerry for actually taking the time to search things out. I appreciate it when Christians do that. Zionist Christians like to use the word “Replacement Theology” but I see it as “Fulfilled Theology.” I too used to believe like you do but after thorough research and learning some basic hermeneutic principle of allowing scriptures to interpret itself, understanding time statements in the bible, audience relevance, Hebraic metaphoric language and the nature of certain statements, extra biblical Christian history and events, after all these, it was impossible for me to believe like I used to believe. I was able to see that “The Israel that’s over there today is just a group of European people from all over the world – They just entered into (adapted) Talmudist” “I understand that to mean that they are not ethnic Jews living there today but imposters.” That’s called Fulfilled Theology.

    Concerning Jer. 31:35-36. I think you forgot to include the previous verses sir, we dont want people to be misled and taken Jer. 31 out of context now do you?
    Previous verses (Jer 31:30-34 ESV) before verses 35-36, says,
    30 But everyone shall die for his own iniquity. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

    The New Covenant
    31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    I think any honest Christian that can read w/out biases and presupposition can conclude that Jer 31 was talking about what Christ accomplished in the new covenant. Heb 8 is the fulfillment of Jer 31. The Hebrew writer quoted Jer 31 in Heb 8 as being a fulfillment in Christ work and the new covenant. Can any Christians see this? Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:8-12 are the same quote, identical!

    Heb 8:6-12 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old, as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
    8 For he finds fault with them when he says:[c]
    “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God,and they shall be my people. 11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” 13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    Heb 13:20-..”everlasting covenant”..

    Heb 7:7-It is beyond dispute that the inferior is blessed by the superior…

    Heb 7:18- For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God..

    Heb 7:22-This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant..

    I understand the New Covenant to be a better covenant, perfect in every way, lacking nothing, inclusive of all peoples, and excluding none. Heb 8:6, Gal 3:28

    Last days of the Old Covenant kingdom, (Mt.21:43, 1 Pet.2:9), and that kingdom’s/nation’s capital city, and its temple, in relationship to the Old Covenant of law was fully abolished in A.D.70 at the destruction of the Jewish temple with the non-elect out of ethnic Israel.. (Galatians 4:24-26, 2 Cor.3:6-8, Rom.8:2)

    “That old 1st century Jewish temple, city, and nation, was a type and shadow of the true dwelling place of God fulfilled in Jesus Christ! (Jn.1:14, Mt.12:6, Rev.21:22, Eph.2:20-22, Heb.8:2, Col. 1:24, Jn.15:1-Mt.21:33, 40, 41-Israel the vineyard, a type. Jesus the vine in reality.) Jesus is the Sabbath rest, the Passover feast, the city of Jersusalem (prince of peace), the Israel of God (He shall be a prince of God). Does He not fulfill this definition of Israel? Is Jesus not enough? “Yes, Jesus is, but…” “Yes, Jesus and…” No if’s, and’s, or but’s, Jesus plus nothing!!! Is He not the Promised Land (Mt.2:15), with ALL THE PROMISES OF GOD IN HIM…”? (2 Cor. 1:20, Mt.5:17, 18, and 2 Cor.5:17) Any other dwelling place is outside of Jesus Christ (Rev.22:15), and that place is destined for doom! This is why we oppose “True Replacement Theology”, which replaces Jesus Christ with a carnal kingdom (Jn.18:36, Lk.17:20, 21, Heb.12:18) IN the Old Covenant format, IN the Middle East, instead of IN JESUS CHRIST (Jn.4:21-24)!”

    There are Jewish scholars who have written saying that it’s impossible to identify the people in political modern state of Israel today through genetics or any other means as biblical Judaic but are Europeans from all over the world.

    Check out some “Judaic” authors who were raised in up in Judaism and culture. Gilad Atzmon-”The Wondering Who?” A mini book by a Judaic professor Israel Shahak called “Jewish History Jewish Religion” who taught @ a Jewish University in Jerusalem. And another Jewish professor who teaches contemporary history @ the University of Tel Aviv, book called “The invention of the Jewish People.” And a book “By Way of Deception” by Victor Ostrovsky, Jewish former Mossad Agent. A short documentary by a Jewish film director Yoav Shamir called “Defamation-anti-Semitism: The Movie” and his 2nd movie called, “Checkpoint.”

    We might agree to disagree because of differences of interpretations but since the scriptures is God breathe and inspired by God written through Holy Men of old, then there is only one interpretation. That’s for both of us!

    2Pet 1:20-21-(ESV)-knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

    A “presupposition” is essentially believing a thing to be true before we approach the Bible in a disciplined moment of study. It is a reading into the text of Scripture a belief system that may in fact not be what the Bible is meaning to say at all.

    Peace to you too brother.

  14. How come my indentions/separations are not showing up properly. Sorry for my sentences running together..Sorry.